You have read the email four times now. You have gone back through your last performance review looking for the sentence that explains it. You have replayed the conversation in the car, in the shower, at two in the morning.
Somewhere in there you stopped asking what happened and started asking what you did.
Because that is the quiet thing nobody says out loud when they lose a job, or a client, or get feedback that landed like a slap. Not “this is hard.” Something smaller and worse: if I had been better, this would not have happened to me.
This week on the From a Woman to a Leader podcast, I sat down with Marjie Hadad, a crisis and leadership communications expert who has spent decades helping leaders say the right thing when everything is going wrong. She is a former TV news reporter and anchor, an award-winning TV producer, and the founder of Marjie Hadad Communications. We recorded this at the Google for Startups studio in Tel Aviv, and I want to thank Google for Startups for hosting us.
But that is not really what we talked about. We talked about the fifteen minutes right after the bad news, and what you do with the story you tell yourself in them.
Below are the insights from our conversation, with my own experience and concrete steps you can take this week.
1. Give Yourself 15 Minutes to Feel Terrible, and Actually Take Them
Most advice about setbacks skips straight to resilience. Marjie starts somewhere else. She learned this one from her mother, and she was very clear that the feeling part is not optional.
“My mother used to say to me, take 10 minutes to feel really, really bad about it. Acknowledge it. Recognize your feelings because it’s true and it’s real. And it’s very natural to feel badly. And to feel out of control and my goodness, what’s next?”
Then she extended the deadline, which made me laugh.
“Take 10, all right, 15, I’ll give you 15, I’m gonna extend it for you. Take 15 minutes to everything you wanna feel within the hole of the donut. And then take a deep breath, brush yourself off, and move forward.”
Marjie on taking 15 minutes to feel terrible before moving forward
Here is what I see again and again with the women I coach. They do the opposite of this in both directions. They either skip the feeling entirely, go straight into updating the CV, and then fall apart three weeks later in a meeting that had nothing to do with it. Or they give the feeling unlimited time, and it quietly becomes the whole season.
The fifteen minutes is not a trick to make you feel better faster. It is permission to feel it fully, which is what lets you put it down.
How to apply this: The next time you get bad news at work, set an actual timer on your phone. Fifteen minutes. Do not journal it, do not solve it, do not text anyone. Feel the whole thing. When it goes off, stand up, get a glass of water, and write down one action you will take in the next twenty-four hours. One.
2. Eye on the Donut, Not on the Hole
This is Marjie’s whole philosophy in seven words, and she did not invent it. She found it on a greeting card.
“Limor, my favorite expression is an old Irish proverb, actually a paraphrase of one. It goes like this. Eye on the donut, not on the hole. And whoever’s watching or listening, repeat after me. Eye on the donut, not on the hole.”
“It means rather than dwelling on the hole, meaning the negative, the sadness, the crisis part of it, look at the donut. And instead of utilizing all your time to think about what was and how terrible it is and you must have been wronged or it was just a disaster. Think about what comes next.”
Eye on the donut, not on the hole, and what it actually means
The card came from her Aunt Nancy, who she describes as stylish, funny, a lady, and a very straight talker who told you exactly how she saw it whether you liked it or not. Marjie was in her late twenties and in a dark period, and Aunt Nancy knew.
“When she sent me this card, I just started to laugh. And I got the message straight away that at that point in my life, I was really dwelling on all the negatives and it was time to redirect.”
I love that the delivery system was a greeting card from an aunt, not a framework from a book. The women I work with have usually read the books. What they are missing is not information, it is the moment someone they trust says the plain thing.
How to apply this: Write down the three things you have lost. Then write down five things that are still true: skills, relationships, reputation, options, the thing you learned there that you will carry. Most people can name the losses instantly and stall at number two on the second list. That stall is the whole problem, and it tells you where your attention has been living.
3. The People Around You Are Learning From How You Handle This
This one shifted the conversation for me, because it takes something that feels entirely private and puts it in public.
“It’s not only for yourself, though primarily it is, but it’s also for those in your world because they’re watching how you respond. So this is a wonderful case study, an example that you can set for the people in your life, whether it’s your colleagues or your children or any friends or whomever, doesn’t really matter, but they’re gonna see how you handle it.”
Marjie then told me what happened in her own house after she got bad news.
“I needed to have that 15 minutes to feel really, really badly. And then one by one, my kids came up to my room on a revolving door to give me a big hug and to ask if I were okay. And they were so genuinely sensitive and kind that I went from feeling awful to really happy and proud and I even had a giggle and I thought to myself, holy moly, I did something right.”
And then the line I have not been able to stop thinking about, the one she said to her son:
“Job, schmob, they come and they go. All good. On to the next opportunity where someone will be able to benefit and appreciate my skill set.”
Sound familiar in reverse? Most of us handle bad news in private and think we are protecting people. Your team is watching. Your kids are watching. They are not learning whether you are strong. They are learning what a person does when something goes wrong, and they will do that thing later.
How to apply this: Pick one person who is watching you right now, a direct report, a kid, a more junior woman on your team. Decide what you want them to have learned from this by the time it is over. Then behave like that, not because you feel it yet, but because the behavior is the lesson.
4. Why You Keep Taking It Personally When It Almost Never Was About You
Here is where Marjie named the pattern directly.
“One of our challenges as a general concept is we take everything personally. In the case of a job, what could I have done different? Right? Why didn’t they like me? Why didn’t they like my work? And sometimes it has absolutely nothing to do with you.”
She is not offering this as comfort. She means it structurally, and she is blunt about how hard it is to accept.
“You’d need to understand in your heart that it really was not about you and there was really nothing you could have done to redirect history, and that’s a very hard pill to swallow. Believe me, I know. However, you have to swallow it.”
“It wasn’t your fault. It genuinely had nothing to do with you. And then honor the relationship. If it’s a company, thank you very much. It was lovely to work with you. I learned. I hope I contributed somehow along the way. And then on to the next.”
I pushed back a little here, because I have had this exact disagreement on this podcast before. A previous guest told me flatly that everything is personal, and I valued that discussion, because disagreement is what makes you actually think. Marjie’s answer was not that feelings are not real. It was that the replay loop costs you something real while it runs.
This is where women get stuck. Taking it personally feels like accountability. It feels responsible, even rigorous. But going over a decision you were not in the room for is not accountability. It is just the loop wearing a costume.
How to apply this: Write the sentence “here is what I could have done differently.” If you can name something specific and actionable, good, that is a real lesson and you should keep it. If what comes out is vague, about being liked, or about being enough, that is not a lesson. That is the loop. Close the notebook.
5. Feedback Is a Gift, Even When It Does Not Feel Like One in the First Hour
Marjie told a story on herself here, from the day before we recorded.
“I woke up in a really rotten mood for some reason. And I was really tired. And when I was delivering during this practice, I thought it was okay, but the feedback was critical. And my first thought was, no, I did a terrible, horrible job. And I felt badly.”
What I appreciated is that she did not pretend to be above the first reaction.
“My initial response was, that’s so mean. How could you say that to me? And within an hour, I thought, brilliant. Absolutely brilliant comments. Thank you so much.”
“It took about maybe a half an hour to an hour of digesting what I had heard. And I understood that this is really good stuff.”
That gap is the useful part. Half an hour to an hour. Not instant grace, not a mindset you either have or do not have. A processing window with a beginning and an end.
Here is what I see again and again. Women in tech are told to “not be defensive about feedback,” which they hear as an instruction to feel nothing at the moment of impact. Then they feel the sting, decide they are bad at receiving feedback, and add that to the pile. You are allowed to have the first reaction. You are just not allowed to act on it.
How to apply this: Give yourself a processing window and say it out loud. “Thank you, let me sit with that and come back to you tomorrow.” That sentence buys you the hour Marjie is describing, and it sounds more senior than an immediate answer does.
6. Imaginary Filtering Earplugs: Separate the Message From the Delivery
This is the most practical thing in the episode, and it is the one I expect people to steal.
“There’s a nice way to communicate and a nasty way to communicate the exact same message. So let me introduce you to my favorite thing for these nasty comments. They are called imaginary filtering earplugs.”
“What do these imaginary filtering earplugs do when someone is saying something nasty to you or screaming at you? Put your imaginary filtering earplugs in. Filter out the nastiness, the noise, the elevated volume, and zero in on what they’re really trying to tell you.”
The imaginary filtering earplugs, Marjie’s tool for nasty feedback
“I’ve been using these for decades at work, in my travels, at home. I let a lot of things slide by and I listen and I really just try to zero in on what are we trying to accomplish here?”
The reason this works is that it stops you having to make one impossible decision. Most of us get a nasty piece of feedback and have to choose between accepting all of it, tone included, or rejecting all of it and losing the part that was true. The earplugs let you keep the information and drop the delivery. Those are two different things and they arrived in the same sentence.
How to apply this: Next time something lands badly, write down the harshest sentence they said. Underneath it, write the same point in neutral language, the way a kind colleague would have said it. Then decide whether you agree with the neutral version. That is the only version that deserves your answer.
7. Sometimes the Strongest Response Is Saying Nothing
I told Marjie that I have not always handled this well. There were people in my career I did not like, who cut me off in meetings and were plainly disrespectful, and I did not always respond gracefully. I was angrier with myself afterwards than I was with them, because I would rather stay composed than get into the mud ring.
Her answer was not about self-control. It was about strategy.
“Oftentimes I’ll go silent and I will just give a very silent facial expression or look in my eye, and I won’t get into the argument, because you can’t argue with a wall.”
“They absolutely hate it, because you’re standing there with confidence and you are true to yourself, and your expression says more than any words that are going to come out of your mouth. And because you haven’t said anything, there’s nothing really to respond to other than the expression.”
“You can’t fight if the other person isn’t willing to fight.”
And on the people who never warm to you no matter what you do:
“I have always been nice to them, but for some reason it wasn’t reciprocated. And I just had to understand that that’s just what it is. We’re not going to be friends. And you know what? That’s perfectly fine. They’re lost. Spend your time with people who appreciate you, who bring the sunshine and only the sunshine.”
Here is the part women in tech often need to hear twice. Silence reads as weakness only if you are silent because you are afraid. Silence chosen deliberately, with your face doing the work, reads as authority. The difference is entirely in whether you decided.
How to apply this: Pick your next hostile meeting and decide in advance that you will not respond in the room. Write your response afterwards, in writing, when you are calm, and send it to the people who need it. You will be amazed how much stronger the written version is than the one you would have said.
About Marjie Hadad
Marjie Hadad is a crisis and leadership communications expert with decades of experience in media and public relations. She is a former TV news reporter and anchor, an award-winning TV producer, and an award-winning author. Her career includes roles as an agent at Ford Model Management in Boston and as media liaison for the Consulate General of Israel to New England. She founded Marjie Hadad Communications, which specializes in medical and venture capital PR, and her keynotes and training help leaders at every level communicate through high-stress situations.
Since recording this episode, Marjie’s book The Confident Kid Playbook has been published. It launched at iMEX in Frankfurt, and she describes it as a book for parentpreneurs, leaders with children, and anyone who works with kids as a coach, mentor or teacher. Her theme in it is the same one that runs through this conversation: bring your whole self to whatever you do, and stop spending energy separating who you are at work from who you are at home.
- Website: marjiehadad.com
- LinkedIn: Marjie Hadad
- Book: The Confident Kid Playbook
What I Took From This Conversation
I told Marjie about the day I was let go. I was invited to a Zoom call with my manager and did not suspect anything. When I joined and saw HR already sitting there, I knew immediately. And my very first thought was not about me, or my mortgage, or what I would tell people. It was: how am I going to make this easier on him?
I said it to her as a confession, because it has always felt slightly absurd to me. Marjie gave it a different name.
“Limor, that is called grace. And you were a genuine lady. That’s why you reacted that way. And your eye was on the bagel rather than the hole.”
Bagel, because I told her I do not actually like donuts, and we spent a happy minute negotiating a cinnamon raisin replacement for an ancient Irish proverb.
But the reframe stayed with me. For years I filed that reaction under “Limor being too accommodating again.” She heard the same story and heard composure. Both readings can be true, and which one you pick determines what you carry out of the room.
That is really what this whole episode is about. The event happened. The story you tell about the event is still being written, and you are the one writing it.
You Don’t Have to Figure This Out Alone
If you are reading this in the middle of it, still replaying a conversation and still looking for the thing you did wrong, I want you to know that the loop is not a character flaw and you are not the only one running it. I work with women in tech leadership who are navigating exactly this, sometimes after a layoff, sometimes after feedback that knocked the confidence out of them, sometimes just quietly wondering whether they are the problem.
You do not have to sort this out by yourself in your own head at two in the morning. Book a promotion strategy call, and we’ll figure out your next move together.
Where to Start This Week
Set a fifteen-minute timer the next time something lands badly. Feel all of it, properly, then stand up and name one action for the next twenty-four hours.
Write the “what could I have done differently” sentence once, and read it honestly. If it is specific, keep it as a lesson. If it is about being liked or being enough, it is the loop, and you close the notebook.
Buy yourself the processing hour out loud. “Thank you, let me sit with that and come back to you tomorrow.” It works on feedback, on bad news, and on anyone trying to get a reaction out of you in a meeting.
Frequently Asked Questions
What should you do in the first 15 minutes after being laid off? Give yourself the full fifteen minutes to feel as bad as you actually feel, without trying to fix anything. Crisis communications expert Marjie Hadad learned this from her mother, who told her to take ten minutes to feel really, really bad, acknowledge it, and recognize the feelings because they are true and real. Marjie extends it to fifteen. The point is that feeling it completely is what allows you to put it down, rather than carrying it into the next three weeks.
How do you stop taking a layoff personally? Test whether your self-questioning produces anything specific and actionable. If you can name a concrete thing you would do differently, that is a real lesson worth keeping. If what comes out is vague, about whether people liked you or whether you were good enough, that is a replay loop rather than accountability. Marjie Hadad puts it directly: in most cases the decision had nothing to do with you, and there was nothing you could have done to redirect history.
What does “eye on the donut, not on the hole” mean? It means directing your attention to what remains and what comes next, rather than to what was lost. Marjie Hadad describes the hole as the negative, the sadness and the crisis part of it, and the donut as the positives and what lies ahead. She found the phrase, a paraphrase of an old Irish proverb, on a greeting card sent to her by her Aunt Nancy during a dark period in her late twenties.
How do you handle criticism at work without falling apart? Allow yourself the first reaction, then give yourself a processing window before you respond. Marjie Hadad describes receiving critical feedback and initially thinking she had done a terrible job, then within about half an hour to an hour understanding it was genuinely good input. Saying “thank you, let me sit with that and come back to you tomorrow” buys you that window and sounds more senior than an immediate answer.
What are imaginary filtering earplugs? They are Marjie Hadad’s technique for separating the content of feedback from the way it was delivered. When someone says something nasty or raises their voice, you mentally put in the earplugs, filter out the nastiness, the noise and the elevated volume, and zero in on what they are actually trying to tell you. It lets you keep the useful information without having to accept the tone along with it.
Is it weak to stay silent when a colleague is disrespectful? No, as long as the silence is chosen rather than fearful. Marjie Hadad deliberately goes quiet and lets her expression do the work, because you cannot argue with a wall and you cannot fight if the other person is not willing to fight. The strength comes from deciding in advance not to respond in the room, then putting your response in writing later when you are calm.
What do you say to your kids when you lose your job? Show them that it is survivable rather than hiding it from them. Marjie Hadad told her son “job, schmob, they come and they go, all good, on to the next opportunity where someone will be able to benefit and appreciate my skill set.” Her wider point is that the people in your world, colleagues and children alike, are watching how you respond, and what they learn is what a person does when something goes wrong.
Who is Marjie Hadad? Marjie Hadad is a crisis and leadership communications expert, a former TV news reporter and anchor, an award-winning TV producer, and an award-winning author. She is the founder of Marjie Hadad Communications, which specializes in medical and venture capital PR, and she has worked as an agent at Ford Model Management in Boston and as media liaison for the Consulate General of Israel to New England. Her book is The Confident Kid Playbook.
🎧 Listen to my conversation with Marjie Hadad: Laid Off and Taking It Personally? Eye on the Donut, Not on the Hole
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Full Transcript
Full transcript of my conversation with Marjie Hadad on the From a Woman to a Leader podcast. Lightly edited for readability — filler words and false starts removed, wording otherwise unchanged.
Welcome, and thank you to Google for Startups
Limor Bergman Gross (00:55): Hi everyone and welcome to another episode of From a Woman to a Leader. I’m your host, Limor Bergman Gross, and I’m super excited to have with me Marjie Hadad, who I met at the Israeli branch of VSAI, Virtual Speaking Association, and Marjie is a professional speaker.
Limor Bergman Gross (01:20): Before we start, I want to thank Google for Startups for hosting us here at their studio in Tel Aviv. Hi Marjie, welcome.
Marjie Hadad (01:29): Hi Limor, and thank you Google.
Limor Bergman Gross (01:32): Yes, thank you Google. And I’m very excited to meet you here.
Marjie Hadad (01:37): I’m delighted to be here. It’s my first time, my first visit to the studio.
Limor Bergman Gross (01:42): Yes, I think it’s a great studio.
Marjie Hadad (01:45): It’s beautiful and we’re having so much fun.
Limor Bergman Gross (01:47): Definitely. That’s the goal, right?
Marjie Hadad (01:50): I try to do things that make me happy nowadays. Every opportunity at a playground. And this has been a wonderful playground this morning.
Limor Bergman Gross (02:01): Definitely.
Why being laid off is one of the biggest crises people face
Limor Bergman Gross (02:04): I know that you are an expert in crisis management.
Marjie Hadad (02:09): Crisis and leadership communications. True story.
Limor Bergman Gross (02:15): Yeah. And being laid off is one of the biggest crises people can experience in their life. Someone works at a company for several years and all of a sudden they are being notified, and it’s not even related to them, right? It’s a business decision to close the site. How can someone deal with that crisis?
Eye on the donut, not on the hole
Marjie Hadad (02:38): Limor, my favorite expression is an old Irish proverb, actually a paraphrase of one. It goes like this. Eye on the donut, not on the hole.
Limor Bergman Gross (02:52): Eye on the donut, not on the hole.
Marjie Hadad (02:56): Eye on the donut, not on the hole. And whoever’s watching or listening, repeat after me. Eye on the donut, not on the hole.
Limor Bergman Gross (03:05): What does that mean?
Marjie Hadad (03:08): What does that mean? It means rather than dwelling on the hole, meaning the negative, the sadness, the crisis part of it, look at the donut. And instead of utilizing all your time to think about what was and how terrible it is and you must have been wronged or it was just a disaster. Think about what comes next. What lies ahead in your future? And focus on the donut, the positives. Keep your focus, get really laser focused on what’s next for you. And absolutely keep your sense of humor, because that will get you through any crisis. So, eye on the donut, not on the hole.
The greeting card from Aunt Nancy
Marjie Hadad (04:12): And full disclosure, I discovered this first on a greeting card that my late and hilarious Aunt Nancy had sent to me in my late 20s during a very dark period. She knew I was having a tough time.
Marjie Hadad (04:30): Aunt Nancy would usually communicate in greeting cards. It was one of the reasons that she was so funny. She was stylish. She was super cool. She was a lady. She also was a very straight talker, and she told you exactly how she saw it, whether you liked it or not. And when she sent me this card, I just started to laugh.
Marjie Hadad (04:54): And I got the message straight away that at that point in my life, I was really dwelling on all the negatives and it was time to redirect. And I did. And anyone who loses their job out there, or they lose a client, it happens. It’s my opinion, it’s just the universe saying it’s time to do something new. So look forward and not backward.
Limor Bergman Gross (05:16): I completely agree with you. It’s hard. It’s a hard thing to do, especially when it’s not something you planned. It comes to you as a complete surprise and you’re not sure what you’re going to do and how you’re going to find an opportunity.
Marjie Hadad (05:36): I didn’t say it was going to be easy. However.
Take 15 minutes to feel terrible, then move forward
Marjie Hadad (05:40): Let’s take some advice from my now late mother.
Limor Bergman Gross (05:44): All right.
Marjie Hadad (05:47): Women in our family are very strong. My mother used to say to me, take 10 minutes to feel really, really bad about it. Acknowledge it. Recognize your feelings because it’s true and it’s real. And it’s very natural to feel badly. And to feel out of control and, my goodness, what’s next? How am I gonna handle this? How am I gonna provide for my family? How am I going to move forward?
Marjie Hadad (06:15): Take 10, all right, 15, I’ll give you 15, I’m gonna extend it for you. Take 15 minutes to everything you wanna feel within the hole of the donut. And then take a deep breath, brush yourself off, and move forward.
The people in your life are watching how you respond
Marjie Hadad (06:32): And I have to tell you one of the reasons why this is important. It’s not only for yourself, though primarily it is, but it’s also for those in your world, because they’re watching how you respond. So this is a wonderful case study, an example that you can set for the people in your life, whether it’s your colleagues or your children or any friends or whomever. It doesn’t really matter, but they’re gonna see how you handle it.
Marjie Hadad (06:59): And if you can role model this well, to move on with positivity and a sense of humor and an enormous amount of focus, then they will follow your lead too when they come into contact with some version of a crisis, whether it is losing your job or something else.
Limor Bergman Gross (07:18): Yeah.
Marjie Hadad (07:20): So the donut philosophy applies to everything. It all comes back to the donut, Limor.
Limor Bergman Gross (07:26): Yeah. The only thing is I don’t really like donuts.
Marjie Hadad (07:30): That’s all right. I’ll take a muffin and cut it out.
Limor Bergman Gross (07:33): Yeah, I have to imagine something other than a donut. Maybe a bagel.
Marjie Hadad (07:38): Sure. I like bagels.
Limor Bergman Gross (07:42): Okay.
Marjie Hadad (07:44): And if you do a cinnamon and raisin, then it’s nice and sweet too.
Limor Bergman Gross (07:48): There you go.
Marjie Hadad (07:50): Keep your eye on the bagel, not on the hole.
Limor Bergman Gross (07:53): All right. We can adjust it.
Marjie Hadad (07:56): We’ll make a new card.
Limor Bergman Gross (07:58): Yes, for sure. So from your experience dealing with crisis situations, how would someone move from that 10, 15 minutes of shock, of grieving, of whatever it may be, to try to look at things in a positive way or in a productive way, going to the losing a job situation or losing a client, right? How can you stop dwelling on that hole and start looking at opportunities?
Why we take everything personally at work
Marjie Hadad (08:25): One of our challenges as a general concept is we take everything personally. In the case of a job, what could I have done different? Right? Why didn’t they like me? Why didn’t they like my work? And sometimes it has absolutely nothing to do with you.
Limor Bergman Gross (08:44): In most cases.
Marjie Hadad (08:47): In most cases. So how do you move out of the taking it personally? You’d need to understand in your heart that it really was not about you, and there was really nothing you could have done to redirect history, and that’s a very hard pill to swallow. Believe me, I know. However, you have to swallow it. Take a glass of water, a nice cool glass of water, if you prefer seltzer go for that, and understand that it wasn’t your fault. It genuinely had nothing to do with you.
Marjie Hadad (09:29): And then honor the relationship. If it’s a company, thank you very much. It was lovely to work with you. I learned. I hope I contributed somehow along the way. And then on to the next.
Freak out, freeze, or chill
Marjie Hadad (09:50): Limor, I’m just like everyone else. In my opinion, we all go through the same stuff, more or less. There are exceptions to the rules and there are extreme cases. But more or less, we all go through the same stuff. Where we differ is how we handle it. How do we handle the crisis? How do we handle the major challenge?
Marjie Hadad (10:17): Do we freak out? Do we freeze? Do we say something in the moment that we will regret? Or do we chill?
Marjie Hadad (10:30): Meaning that we compartmentalize our emotions for the moment and hyper focus on how to solve a problem, not on the problem itself, but how to solve the problem. And then we choose. How can we fix the problem, and if we can’t fix the problem, who can we get to fix the problem?
Marjie Hadad (10:51): And then once that person gets there to fix the problem, how can you be of assistance? Sometimes the best way to be of assistance is just to get the heck out of the way.
Limor Bergman Gross (11:04): Yeah.
Marjie Hadad (11:06): And then act, meaning call the people in and exercise your strategy.
Limor Bergman Gross (11:12): And I think this is going back to the job market. I think this is one of the challenges, that people who lose their job are stuck in the grieving moment. They are stuck in the moment of, OK, I lost my job. What am I going to do? It’s stressful.
Marjie Hadad (11:31): Absolutely.
It sucks, and my layoff: the Zoom call with HR already there
Limor Bergman Gross (11:34): Yeah. Am I allowed to use the word sucks? It sucks.
Marjie Hadad (11:40): It sucks. No two ways about it, my friend. Losing your job, losing a client. It sucks. And especially when you’re not expecting it.
Limor Bergman Gross (11:50): Especially, yeah.
Marjie Hadad (11:52): When you think everything’s going really well and then right in the middle of a briefing, they say, by the way, this is the hardest thing I’ve ever had to do, but I need to let you go. And you’re just standing there, sitting there, going, huh? Did I hear you correctly? Knee-jerk reaction. What?
Limor Bergman Gross (12:07): Yeah. I remember that I was let go once, and I was invited to a Zoom call with my manager. I didn’t suspect that my manager was going to let me go.
Limor Bergman Gross (12:24): And when I joined the call, I saw HR. I said, okay. I realized immediately. And I remember that my manager at the time was very uncomfortable with the conversation, because no one likes it, right? No one likes letting someone go.
Marjie Hadad (12:42): No one wants to deliver bad news.
Limor Bergman Gross (12:45): Yeah.
Marjie Hadad (12:47): And there’s an expression, and here comes the dark humor again. But don’t shoot the messenger.
Limor Bergman Gross (12:50): Yeah. And he felt very uncomfortable. And you know what is the first thought that got into my head?
Marjie Hadad (13:00): What’s that?
Limor Bergman Gross (13:02): How am I going to make it easier on him to let me go? It’s just crazy stuff.
Marjie Hadad (13:08): That is so Limor. That is so Limor.
Limor Bergman Gross (13:12): So I was telling him, I really appreciate all the time. And I was genuine, I wasn’t bluffing or something. I said, I really appreciate all the opportunity I had working at that company, all the things I learned, all the experiences I had. Really appreciate working with you. And I thank you for that.
That is called grace
Marjie Hadad (13:34): Yes. And I understand. Limor, that is called grace. And you were a genuine lady. That’s why you reacted that way. And your eye was on the bagel rather than the hole, in that reaction, as opposed to mine, which was, what? So all the respect to you.
Marjie Hadad (13:55): It took me about, I needed to have that 15 minutes to feel really, really badly. And then one by one, my kids came up to my room on a revolving door to give me a big hug and to ask if I were okay. And they were so genuinely sensitive and kind that I went from feeling awful to really happy and proud, and I even had a giggle, and I thought to myself, holy moly, I did something right for my kids to have this spontaneous and natural reaction.
Limor Bergman Gross (14:28): Yeah.
Marjie Hadad (14:30): And now it’s up to me to show them that everything’s going to be okay. And I remember saying to my son, job, schmob, they come and they go. All good. On to the next opportunity where someone will be able to benefit and appreciate my skill set and where I can actually do some good and help. Because you don’t really want to be at a place where you’re no longer invited, for whatever the reason. And again, it’s nothing personal.
The guest who told me everything IS personal
Limor Bergman Gross (15:02): I want to touch on that nothing personal thing, with your permission. Marjie.
Marjie Hadad (15:09): Of course. So bring it on, Limor.
Limor Bergman Gross (15:12): So actually in this studio, I interviewed a wonderful lady and we were talking about, among other things, and I said something about when someone gives you harsh feedback, don’t take it personally, because usually it’s not just about you. A lot of times it’s about them. And she completely disagreed with me. She said everything is personal.
Limor Bergman Gross (15:32): And I value the discussion. I like actually to have even disagreements, because it’s good. It gets you thinking.
Marjie Hadad (15:41): Everyone’s got an opinion. Perfectly fine. And it’s a very valid opinion.
Limor Bergman Gross (15:46): I wanted to hear your take on taking things personally, and how do you deal with that? Because in life, a lot of shit happens to us.
Marjie Hadad (15:53): Does it? A lot of great stuff.
Limor Bergman Gross (15:57): But also a lot of shit, and we have to deal with a lot of people, and sometimes they are nasty.
Marjie Hadad (16:03): Yeah.
Limor Bergman Gross (16:05): Sometimes they are just unpleasant.
Marjie Hadad (16:07): That’s a nice way to put it.
Limor Bergman Gross (16:09): Sometimes they are jerks.
Marjie Hadad (16:11): All right. This is a family show so I will not share my extensive colorful vocabulary with you, but absolutely, I 100 percent agree.
Feedback is a gift, even when it stings
Marjie Hadad (16:20): I think that most times it is something that we should not be taking personally. We need to look at criticism as feedback, and to see feedback as a gift. What do I mean by that?
Marjie Hadad (16:38): Actually, yesterday I was practicing something, and I woke up in a really rotten mood for some reason. And I was really tired. And when I was delivering during this practice, I thought it was okay, but the feedback was critical. And my first thought was, no, I did a terrible, horrible job. And I felt badly.
Marjie Hadad (17:10): But then I understood that the feedback was a gift. It was nothing personal. The feedback was intended to help me do better, to improve on what I was doing. And it took about maybe a half an hour to an hour of digesting what I had heard. And I understood that this is really good stuff.
Marjie Hadad (17:41): So my initial response was, that’s so mean. How could you say that to me? And within an hour, I thought, brilliant. Absolutely brilliant comments. Thank you so much.
Marjie Hadad (17:55): So when someone shares something with you, even if they share it in a not nice way. And by the way, the feedback yesterday was shared in a reasonably nice way. It was constructive. It wasn’t nice, it wasn’t not nice. I would call it direct, in the middle.
Imaginary filtering earplugs
Marjie Hadad (18:10): And we also have to keep in mind, when people share feedback with us in probably the nastiest way they can come up with, because that’s just maybe who they are, or they haven’t learned how to communicate nicely yet, which we can always show them how to do, because there’s a nice way to communicate and a nasty way to communicate the exact same message.
Marjie Hadad (18:32): So let me introduce you to my favorite thing for these nasty comments. They are called imaginary filtering earplugs. I always joke with some family and friends that there’s a two for one sale at the pharmacy. So go and grab yours now.
Marjie Hadad (18:52): What do these imaginary filtering earplugs do when someone is saying something nasty to you, or screaming at you? Put your imaginary filtering earplugs in. Filter out the nastiness, the noise, the elevated volume, and zero in on what they’re really trying to tell you.
Marjie Hadad (19:18): And that’s the only thing that you pay attention to, so that you can respond like you did, bringing this full circle, when you were let go, with grace and respect and with additional information, in order to move the conversation forward in a positive way.
Marjie Hadad (19:31): I’ve been using these for decades. At work, in my travels, at home. I let a lot of things slide by and I listen, and I really just try to zero in on what are we trying to accomplish here? And we either move forward in a positive direction, or I let it go, understanding that if nothing good is going to come out of responding, better just not to respond.
When you don’t handle it gracefully
Limor Bergman Gross (19:58): Yeah. Love that. I think part of why I was able to respond the way I responded in that specific situation is because I really respected that person and I really believed that he was doing his job. But there were other occasions in my career that I didn’t respond so gracefully, with people that I really didn’t like.
Marjie Hadad (20:20): It happens. We work with people that we don’t like.
Limor Bergman Gross (20:26): And when that happened, maybe it’s not even about feedback. Sometimes people just don’t behave professionally. They cut you off.
Marjie Hadad (20:33): It happened to me too.
Limor Bergman Gross (20:35): Cut me off at meetings, disrespectful, and I wasn’t always very gracious about responding to them. And then I was actually mad at myself, because I prefer to keep myself composed and not get into the mud ring.
Marjie Hadad (20:55): Absolutely. I agree with you. Not everybody likes everyone. And sometimes you don’t know why somebody doesn’t like you. Or you’re not quite sure why you don’t like someone else. They just rub you the wrong way.
Marjie Hadad (21:11): I think that even in those cases, we can only control what we can control, and we can only control ourselves. So I think it’s a good approach to always be a lady or a gentleman, and to behave with grace and sophistication. And if the person who doesn’t like us is unable to achieve that when interacting with us, then I would suggest you either remove yourself from a toxic situation, graciously call them out on it, because you don’t have to take any crap from anyone.
Silent communication: you can’t argue with a wall
Marjie Hadad (21:55): Or, oftentimes I’ll go silent, and I will just give a very silent facial expression or look in my eye, and I won’t get into the argument, because you can’t argue with a wall.
Limor Bergman Gross (22:10): That’s true. That’s probably irritating for the other side.
Marjie Hadad (22:14): They hate it. They absolutely hate it, because you’re standing there with confidence and you are true to yourself, and your expression says more than any words that are going to come out of your mouth. And because you haven’t said anything, there’s nothing really to respond to other than the expression.
Marjie Hadad (22:31): And this is with kids and colleagues, by the way. Sometimes with colleagues, I would go silent and they would see my expression and they would move on, because they understood that, that’s it, there is no response. You can’t fight if the other person isn’t willing to fight. And at home with the kids, sometimes things would be so over the top that I would just shrug and make an expression, and that was enough for them to stop, because they got the message.
Marjie Hadad (23:03): So silent communication can be a very strong tool. And again, don’t take it personally. The fact that they don’t like you is probably more about them than about you.
Limor Bergman Gross (23:18): Probably.
Marjie Hadad (23:20): I know there are a number of people who have not been kind to me over the years. And I have always been nice to them, but for some reason it wasn’t reciprocated. And I just had to understand that that’s just what it is. We’re not going to be friends. And you know what? That’s perfectly fine.
Limor Bergman Gross (23:38): Probably better.
Marjie Hadad (23:40): Probably better. And you know what? They’re lost.
Limor Bergman Gross (23:44): That’s true.
Marjie Hadad (23:46): If someone doesn’t want to hang with you or collaborate or be friendly with you, it’s their loss. Spend your time with people who appreciate you, who bring the sunshine and only the sunshine.
The Confident Kid Playbook
Limor Bergman Gross (23:56): Loved it. And I think that’s a great way to end the episode today. But before we end, I know that you have a book coming up. So tell us a little bit about your new book, because it’s very exciting.
Marjie Hadad (24:10): Thank you. I’m so excited for it to be out in the world. It is called The Confident Kid Playbook. And the overall theme is for you as a parentpreneur, a leader with children, or a professional who works with kids, like a coach, a mentor, a teacher, what have you. And if you’re an aunt, uncle, grandparent, this is for you too.
Marjie Hadad (24:32): To bring your whole self to whatever you do. Not to waste energy separating who you are at work from who you are at home, from who you are during your travels. Whoever is in your company, let them benefit from all those wonderful skill sets that make you special.
Limor Bergman Gross (24:52): I love it.
Bagels in Jerusalem, and eye on the donut
Limor Bergman Gross (24:55): Well, Marjie, it’s been an absolute pleasure.
Marjie Hadad (24:58): So much fun. Yeah. Here in the playground with you, Limor.
Limor Bergman Gross (25:03): Yeah. I think that we should probably go out and find some cinnamon and raisin bagels, now that we’ve discussed them.
Marjie Hadad (25:10): Yes.
Limor Bergman Gross (25:12): I’m trying to think where we can find those bagels here in Tel Aviv, but probably they sell it somewhere.
Marjie Hadad (25:16): Absolutely. I know a great place in Jerusalem.
Limor Bergman Gross (25:19): OK. So that’s an opportunity for me to go to Jerusalem and meet you again there.
Marjie Hadad (25:26): You’re invited.
Limor Bergman Gross (25:28): Thank you so much, Marjie. It’s been a pleasure.
Marjie Hadad (25:31): Thank you for having me. And good luck to everybody out there. Remember, eye on the donut, not on the hole.